GlobalEdgeTalk
GlobalEdgeTalk
Resilience and Innovation: Alena Zhylich Brown on Redefining Outsourcing and Empowering Women Entrepreneurs
Alena Zhylich Brown, the visionary CEO of Positify, shares her incredible journey from being stranded in the U.S. during the war in Ukraine to becoming a trailblazer in the world of outsourcing. Elena's story is a testament to resilience and innovation, as she navigates personal transformations, including a recent marriage and a name change, while leading a business. Her dedication to transforming outsourcing into a catalyst for innovation highlights her passion for redefining industry norms and embracing technological advancements. This episode promises to enlighten listeners on how adversity can fuel entrepreneurial success.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the evolving landscape of outsourcing, as Elena reveals her motivation behind writing a book on the subject. She challenges the traditional perception of outsourcing as merely a cost-cutting strategy, advocating for its potential to drive digital transformation and spur growth. By drawing parallels between outsourcing and everyday delegation, Elena encourages a shift in mindset that sees it as an opportunity rather than a necessity. The discussion delves into the nuances of strategic outsourcing and its impact on business operations.
Elena also candidly addresses the intersection of entrepreneurship and gender equality, sharing strategies for women transitioning from stable careers to entrepreneurial ventures. Her experiences with gender disparities, both in the workplace and through international experiences, offer important lessons on empowerment and financial preparedness. This conversation is not just about entrepreneurship but also about the strength and determination required to overcome challenges and inspire others. Join us as we explore these compelling themes and the power of outsourcing with an industry leader who is genuinely redefining the boundaries of her field.
Hi, this is Alex Romanovich and welcome to Global Edge Talk Today, october 22nd 2024,. Our guest is Alena Zhylich Brown. Hello, Alena.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Hi Alex, Thank you for having me.
Alex Romanovich:Welcome, welcome to our studio. Well, first of all, we have to acknowledge that you were married, correct?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yeah, yeah.
Alex Romanovich:So congratulations on that, and that's why your LinkedIn now says Elena Brown Zilich or is it Elena Zilich Brown?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Alena Zhylich Brown
Alex Romanovich:Excellent, congratulations, congratulations, wonderful. And we'll talk more about your path, your personal path. Elena is the CEO of a company called Positify Positifyai Very interesting company. It's a company that's dedicated to, first of all. The reason it's called Positify is because everything is positive about this company and they do everything very positively, correct.
Alena Zhylich Brown:We do our best. At least you know like to do it like in such a disruptive world.
Alex Romanovich:And we'll talk about outsourcing, because that's how this company is related to outsourcing and also recently wrote a book and published a book about outsourcing. Congratulations on that as well.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Thanks, thanks One more time.
Alex Romanovich:Excellent. Elena is on our show for a number of reasons. First of all, she's a personal friend. I've known her for quite some time, definitely over five years and maybe even close to 10. And she always impressed me as a true entrepreneur, as a problem solver, as somebody who never says no to any type of challenges or issues and always faces those issues and challenges, face on. She had a very challenging path in the recent few years. She was a witness to war in Ukraine. She was a witness to a number of different transformations, personal transformations. She was separated from her family. She had to survive. We can easily say that here in the United States as a new member of American society. She became recently a permanent member of the American society based on her status. So her path was very, very interesting, very challenging and worthy of a book, worthy of a story, and that's the story that we'd like to explore with Elena today.
Alex Romanovich:Elena, you and I first met face-to-face in the distant past back in Ukraine, when you were starting two or three things right away. You invited me to participate in a very entrepreneurial venture that you started there with startups and investors and so forth. It was a jet accelerator. It was actually a very famous one in Eastern Europe. Secondly, shortly after you formed a very interesting women's business network best version with a couple of partners and you were very active. You were also consulting and you came out of technology. You combined a lot of very interesting skills. Where is all this coming from? Where is all this energy coming from and what drives you? Tell us what drives Elena Zilich?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yeah, it's a very interesting question. Thank you so much for telling such good words about myself. Yeah, sometimes I'm really surprised by myself. So what drives me? Probably it's personal interest to everything new. I really love what I'm doing. I really love outsourcing, startups, innovation, digital transformation, ai all this new stuff technologies. Obviously, transformation AI, all this new stuff technologies. Obviously, and probably that's the reason why I'm so productive, because I know how to use tools, how to use skills. You know, and I'm learning all the time. And, of course, very important thing is personal discipline. In Everson I do. So my strategy if you cannot like run, you should go. If you cannot go, you should go. If you cannot go, you should scroll. If you cannot scroll, you should look at the direction of your target. So this is how I live. So probably I'm very competitive.
Alex Romanovich:Alex, to be honest. But it's not just competitive. I also witnessed a very, very structured and very interesting trait about yourself, because the next time I saw you, you came to the United States and we had some projects that we were doing and after the second date, I believe, of you arriving in the United States, a war in Ukraine started, yeah, and our audience needs to appreciate something. And our audience needs to appreciate something Imagine yourselves traveling on business to a different country, across the ocean, to the United States, and with your child, your family, being elsewhere, your possessions, your apartment, your car, whatever.
Alena Zhylich Brown:My business I'm keeping all my people.
Alex Romanovich:Your business right your business. I'm keeping all my people your business right, your business being elsewhere and all of a sudden, you get parachuted as if you are completely disconnected from everything you ever possessed, including your loved ones, including your family, and you are left in the limbo. Tell us what you felt at that moment.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yeah, so it was the most challenging situation in my life, obviously. So, even though I was a successful crisis manager, I wasn't really prepared for that, but it looks like I am a good person. I had pretty good, pretty big social capital. I had such fantastic friends as you, alex, and a few more people here who definitely helped me to settle down and supported me during the terrible times. To be honest, like first four months, and I will always remember how some of my other friends sent me money and how other friend offered to stay with his family for six months. I'm really grateful to this family. Now they're my extended family.
Alena Zhylich Brown:One person told me that it's called social capital, but I don't want to monetize it. I would say it's important to have a lot of friends, I mean, and to have real friends, not like people to hang out or, you know, spend time with someone you can rely on. And that was the most challenging part and the most stressful part for me was that my son was still stayed in Europe. Gladly, he stayed with my parents, so I was more or less confident that everything is fine with him, but it was really stressful to bring him to the United States. We had two attempts. We found a school for him in Los Angeles and we applied to a student visa and, even though he has Ukrainian passport, we got two rejections from US embassy and they lost his passport. And, yeah, I think we did a miracle all together, including you and your friends, when we brought like thousands of emails to the embassy. He brought so many emails, I think I'm very well known in US embassy.
Alena Zhylich Brown:After this, luckily, they found the passport in two months. I was able to bring him by United we Pray program, but it took me six months and yet it was really the most stressful part of my life, to be honest. But, as you see, now I'm fine. And what really helped me, the idea that what I did was the best for my family. And it was really a hard decision to decide to stay in the United States because, you know, immigration is not simple and forced immigration is even harder.
Alex Romanovich:When you're presented with something like that in life, and in your career for that matter, what is the advice that you would give to the audience? What is the first thing they should do? What should be the process on how to handle a disaster like that? Because, you know, we're constantly surrounded by disasters? Our good friend, marla Bates, was left without a home in Florida. Right, just you know. Poof gone right. Another friend of ours, michael Casey Luckily he did not have an issue. Pete Kranick, another friend of ours that you know very well Poof gone right. So, all of a sudden, your life goes like this, right in front of you, and the first thing you do is what you know. What is your advice? What is the what is your advice? What is the process that you would use as a person when you're faced with something like that?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yes, first of all, I have a system and this is not something that I invented, but this is something that I am using. I have a list of values and some material stuff. So first for me, the most important is family, then it's myself, my health, my mental health. So when you get into such a situation, you start consciously analyzing the situation and say, hey, yeah, it's very stressful, but OK, if I'm going to be too much upset or stressed, will it really help? And the question usually is no. So you calm down. Then you think what you do, is it good for your family or is it good for yourself? No, it's not. Then I don't do this and making these decisions really helps.
Alena Zhylich Brown:So first of all, you should understand that, yes, that happened and the past is past. You cannot change it, and just try to think, like in perspective of today and tomorrow, what you can do for tomorrow. I talk a lot to my mom, like in my mind, because my mom is a very important person and her wisdom is like something unbelievable. Very important person and her wisdom is like something unbelievable. So I had a lot of these conversations and I really believed that I will be able to overcome all these difficulties and if situation is really stressful, just live one day at a time. And if you really feel really, really bad, just do one step at a time.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Good advice, you can do whatever you can do today. What is the best, what can be the best day of your life today?
Alena Zhylich Brown:So break everything into small chunks, manageable chunks, right. Yeah, because when war happened, people were not able to plan like even for a few days. Therefore, like my American colleagues and family, who now are like planning their holidays and vacations somewhere like in two, five years, I'm not sure from this day, you know, in Ukraine people still plan their life like one week in advance the most. So this really helped me and yeah, and that's how I survived the most. So this really helped me and yeah, and that's how I survived the times. It's constant conversation with yourself, with your angels, with your friends who really support it, and yeah.
Alex Romanovich:Let's go back to your book, successfully published, written by you. It's about outsourcing. Why outsourcing and why this particular topic was of interest to you, and tell us what sort of went into the process of conceiving it, thinking about it and then actually doing it. What are some of the you know revelations that you found, or some of the disappointments even when you were writing a book.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yeah, like I was really thinking to write a book for a very long time and I had really interesting projects in my career and digital transformation projects very impressive for awards, and so I've had it in my mind. But, you know, time passed and I still wanted to do something in the professional field and I just realized that outsourcing is something that I know the most, and I also felt like the word outsourcing is misused lately a lot and it got some bad reputation, I would say. Therefore, I just really wanted to give this world like new perspective, to rebrand it a little bit Plus. I think that now, with all these technologies, ai disruptions, how people should do outsourcing it's not like simply cost cutting. It's more like impact sourcing. If people do something, they're supposed to do it for cause. So that's why I just really wanted to give people new thoughts about this topic and I really think that this is a big market as a business person and I definitely wanted to get more attention to this, to myself as an author, and this is how it happened. But it was really challenging process. To be honest. I haven't expected it to be so complex, even though I spent about six months for development of the book. It was really challenging to publish it.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Why Outsource? First of all, because I consider myself as highly professional in Outsource and it's really not so easy and not so straightforward to find like a real strategic partner, I would say, to do outsourcing successfully and to make this partnership working like one plus one equals 11. So why companies outsource? It's not only because of cost cutting, but it's a desire to implement some innovative project faster. I have witnessed a situation when companies were trying to implement digital transformation projects for three or five years without any success. Why? Because it's like regular development of the house. Regular developer can build like small, one bedroom house within some time frame, but if you want to build really big house, you cannot use the same team or same technologies. You need architect, you need different materials, same technologies, you need architect, you need different materials. But unfortunately, when people deal with innovation and digital transformation, in most of situations, clients do not really realize that they are not building like one bedroom house anymore. That's why it's really important to talk and to involve professionals.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Therefore, outsourcing is a very essential and important tool. It's like, if you recall, france once built like pyramids. I hope you do not think that farmers can build like a miracle of the world. That's the main point. Probably the next reason is a lack of talent in-house. Maybe they want to be more innovative, but they are really overwhelmed with day-to-day tasks and do not have time to be creative, because innovation it's really time consuming. You have to learn new tools, you have to get new knowledge, you have to gather a lot of information and if you're deep inside of your daily routine you just cannot do this. It's physically impossible. Our brain doesn't work like that. If you want to be a global company, I think that outsourcing is the fastest way to open a business in your location. A lot of clients that I know first started with outsourcing some projects local projects in Europe or in Africa or China or whatever and then they either bought out the partners or they just established new business in the country destination.
Alex Romanovich:Tell me, do you think that everyone worldwide thinks the same way? Do you think that there's still people out there that can say, listen, I can do everything myself, I don't need to outsource, that's going to be too expensive, I cannot trust them, I cannot delegate to them because it's too confidential, you know, and so forth and so on? How do you overcome that internal feeling about those types of challenges that you potentially have with yourself, right, or a decision maker or a company to say, look, we can do it all together ourselves?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Yeah. So, first of all, outsourcing is not for everyone. I mean, of course, everyone can use it, but it's not for everyone. If you have such mental problems that you have an issue with delegating things, first of all you should resolve this mental problem for yourself. It's not about outsourcing in general, it's about delegating I don't know, Even to an employee.
Alena Zhylich Brown:I saw a lot of situations managers hire people and they do not trust them. So it's not only about outsourcing, it's a philosophy of life for a specific person and I believe that outsourcing is a tool. For example, if your car broke, what you do? You go to service Because you have no other choice than to go to service, because you don't understand anything about your car. You cannot fix it yourself. So that's the same philosophy.
Alena Zhylich Brown:I have clients who mostly do not understand what to do and my job is to help them to fix their situation, to fix their solution, Even though we have different services, but we always to provide either very capable people or we just deploy solutions for clients, because in most situations I'd have clients not IT departments but business people who mostly do not understand anything about IT. So that's why you have to get their trust and show them that you understand their business, and the second part is to make a solution for them. What can I say? Just read my book. I really wrote a lot of interesting information and strategies and unfortunately I just do not be able to tell everything within this small time frame.
Alex Romanovich:Of course, absolutely. And, by the way, to our audience. We will post the links to the book and some of the excerpts from the book on Elena's landing page when we're done with the podcast and we'll publish it. Elena, let me ask you another question. So can anyone outsource? Does it take a special skill or talent to outsource? Does it take a special level of courage, talent, special level of delegation, overcoming certain fears? Because, you know, people hired nannies for their children For years, people hired drivers to drive them to places. For years they hired chefs to cook their meals and so forth. No matter where you look, there is outsourcing right, but do we even think about it anymore? Or does it take a special level of thinking and vision to actually do something? On the more grandiose level, if you will?
Alena Zhylich Brown:Good question, because I remember myself when I just started my business career and my own company and I become really overwhelmed. Because I was mom, I was businesswoman, I was marketer. Because I was mom, I was businesswoman, I was marketer, I was sales, I was project manager and it was a really pivotal decision for me to hire Nani or to hire, like a person, a cleaning lady. It was also kind of outsourcing, but it was only a way for me to survive and later develop my business because I free up my time from simple tasks. And it's also everything about your values. If your value is your kid, you just cannot say I will do business because your kid is a value and you just cannot combine it like at some point when kid is growing, then you can get back to this, yeah.
Alena Zhylich Brown:So I believe that every person can do outsourcing, but it definitely depends on your maturity as a company, as a person, and if you really know what kind of result you expect and you know how to control it because it's very important to control and to manage your subcontractor then, yes, every person can outsource. But the first thing that you should do, you should clearly understand your maturity in this and my suggestion will be. If you just want to open your business, do not outsource to freelancer. It will be really a waste of money because you need someone more mature who can help you with his or her competence, because otherwise it will be just two kids trying to do something. And what kind of result you can expect from kids?
Alex Romanovich:So what you're saying is that when you outsource maybe your first couple of projects, you should really either go with somebody with a lot of experience I'll go with a company, because that's where you find the methodology, you find the structure, almost to the point of saying that you find some level of reliability, because they've done it a few other times before and they have references and so forth but if you go with freelancer, that's a higher risk, right?
Alena Zhylich Brown:And I personally consider myself as a professional in outsourcing and I would never work with someone without contracts, for example, and even having a contract, it's really hard to get results that you really expect from a freelancer. I had experience dealing with freelancers. Unfortunately, they are very fragmental, they do not understand the full picture and it will be just a waste of money and experience and very valuable experience.
Alex Romanovich:Excellent, let's move on. You walk on the street and you meet Elena of 10-15 years ago. You recognize each other and you sit down for a cup of coffee. What do you tell Elena of 10- 15 years ago? You recognize each other and you sit down for a cup of coffee. What do you tell Elena of 10 to 15 years ago?
Alena Zhylich Brown:I would definitely tell to believe more in yourself, maybe, to be more tolerant to different people, to different opinions, and let these people live their life. And yeah, I would just say that you're doing good and you will be fine, because, you know, sometimes I was very, very much upset about what was going on around me. You are much, much more stronger than you think and much more capable, and that challenge is given to us for good and you can handle everything. Basically, that's all, and it will be more like motivation and cheer up of this young Elena. I was pretty brave. I think that I did everything right, because otherwise I wouldn't be here. So she was. She was fine, even 15 years ago.
Alex Romanovich:Henry Suryawirawan. Now, that's advice to Elena, but you know we have a lot of listeners who are entrepreneurs, who are startups, so she was fine even 15 years ago, or they decided to pursue something on their own. What advice would you give them on their path to entrepreneurship, on their path to doing something fractional or juggling something fractional, right, maybe juggling multiple projects and so forth? We meet a lot of people who come from a full-time position and they're absolutely fearful of how will I manage three, four, five projects at the same time and balance it with my personal life, and so forth, and so on, especially if it's a woman. So what advice would you give them?
Alena Zhylich Brown:My advice would be if you really want it, you have to do it, and as early as possible. So just be bold in making this decision, but do not put all eggs into one basket. So it's actually a very good strategy to have a few projects in parallel, even though the beginning will be definitely very stressful and very time-consuming. But it's actually temporary. You should understand that. Nothing lasts forever, but the start of the business is the most stressful. It shouldn't be a simple emotional decision. You're supposed to have a strategy.
Alena Zhylich Brown:That's why, when I left my career as VP of business development in an international company, it took me like six months at least to build a plan. That's why, when I left, you know I was ready. I was ready mentally, I was ready financially, I had some budget. I was an investor of my business. So I had some like six months budget for operation of my company. And again, just try to split the personal and the business. So you should manage your business. Do not combine personal money and business money. It's like the biggest thing and everything is about values as well. So if your family is bigger value than your business, probably it's not a good thing to start a business, to be honest.
Alex Romanovich:So let's talk about you personally as a woman. You've encountered a number of different business environments in different countries all over the world. Do you think that women today have a fair environment in which they can thrive, they can grow, they can be promoted, they can be rewarded with bonuses and good salaries? What do you think about that?
Alena Zhylich Brown:I think that, especially in America, women did a really great job during the last 50 years to change the situation dramatically, because now we can at least publicly have the same rights and have the same opportunities. But, of course, for it's always more difficult. To be honest, even you have a fair opportunity. It's just more complex especially if you married a woman or not married a woman but have kids to find the work that you know suitable for you and at the same time, of course, your employer also look at you from the same perspective, because even I know that some companies are trying to find a woman for even top manager position, but they want someone like man, to be honest, but woman.
Alena Zhylich Brown:And if we talk about discrimination, I personally faced this situation in my career when, first of all, I think that until you get to some level I mean to management level, probably, at least in the IT sector I don't know about like others, but I can speak about the IT sector First of all, of course, as a woman, you have to deliver like for five people.
Alena Zhylich Brown:You're supposed to be brilliant, you're supposed to work harder, work longer hours, be more dedicated, be more responsible, and it's like everyone expects this from you, especially if you're a manager or director, you have a lot of attention. At least I had a lot of attention, but I didn't feel like I was discriminated. I had a lot of attention but I didn't feel like I was discriminated. But at some point when I become like top manager, I just figure out. I got some information. I don't know maybe it's not true but someone told me that my salary is like 30% less than salary of the managers on the similar position and it really hurt me. Maybe it was manipulation, I don't know, but when you have this kind of information and you cannot really check it, it really hurt me. I really tried to negotiate with my managers at the time, but they decided that my salary is good enough. But they were wrong, so I left.
Alex Romanovich:Why do you think they were at such a risk, If you're a top performer, if you did so much good stuff for the company? Do you think that they were just too overconfident that you were not going to leave because of whatever circumstances? Or do you think that that was kind of ingrained in them that you're going to make less than men?
Alena Zhylich Brown:I think it was combination, but of course, first of all it was their confidence that I wouldn't leave. And yeah, at some point, just you know, I just realized that point of not return is crossed. I was trying to organize everything to not to hurt anybody and I should just leave, you know, to be honest, because the only person who was hurt was at that like when it's over, it was me, and it took me a lot of mental power to restore the resources.
Alex Romanovich:What was your feeling? What did you feel when you actually left the company and found your next successful position? Or, I know, you started your own business, you opened an association called Best Version and so forth. How do you feel now about that experience? Do you feel vindicated? Do you feel that you did the right thing? Do you think that maybe some other tactic could give you success back in that company?
Alena Zhylich Brown:I think that I achieved everything in the company, so I'm actually very grateful. I had two experiences that I had. I got a really good international experience and therefore, when people ask me how I feel so confident in the United States, you know I've had a really impressive international experience like working in different countries, like in Scandinavia, israel, us, canada. So, yeah, that's why I'm grateful for this. But, as I said, I think that I just put too much effort. It wasn't my company, I was hired employee and when you work too long sometimes you forget about this that you're only employee and they decide owners decide how it's supposed to be and they have like 100% right to do this.
Alex Romanovich:You know, you made me think about a lot of things that you said about outsourcing. You made me think about how I would do certain things with or without it, and it's a very interesting. I mean, I read almost all of the book and it's actually fascinating. The historic part of that is fascinating, and I didn't even realize a lot of things that were outsourced and without which, you know, there would be no progress, frankly, there would be no scale, you know, and so forth. You maybe think about the value of it, the true value of it, how you monetize it, how you assign value to it, how you assign time to it, and so forth, and so on. And I'd love to do more. I'd love to talk to you more about this and talk more about the book, but for now, we want to thank you for coming over to our studio. We definitely want to continue this conversation in more detail, maybe about the book, and wish you all the best in your career and in your personal life.
Alena Zhylich Brown:Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. I feel like we need more time to discuss everything, but it was a good start. Thank you, hope to see you in Los Angeles one day.