GlobalEdgeTalk
GlobalEdgeTalk
Navigating the Future of Recruitment: Insights from Matt Mann at reesmarxGLOBAL on Hybrid Work, AI, and Global Challenges
Join us as we journey into the rapidly evolving world of recruitment with insights from our distinguished guest, Matt Mann. Explore how the post-COVID landscape has reshaped hiring practices, with larger corporations grappling to strike a balance between in-office and remote work, while smaller and mid-sized companies embrace a more flexible, global approach. Matt shares his expertise on the growing demand for tech-savvy candidates and the need for analytical skills across roles, highlighting the ongoing shift towards hybrid work environments propelled by technological advancements. Get a glimpse of what the future holds for recruitment in 2024 and beyond, as well as the emergence of new roles like the Chief AI Officer reshaping the industry.
Our conversation delves into the challenges faced by top-tier professionals navigating today's competitive job market, where even those with specialized skills face hurdles. As AI technologies continue to advance, we uncover the complexities and ethical considerations of integrating AI in hiring practices, and why human oversight remains indispensable. The episode also unravels the intricacies of global recruitment, touching on the importance of cultural awareness and maintaining personal interactions in an increasingly digital world. Discover strategies for attracting and retaining top talent through proactive engagement and innovative brand storytelling in new markets. Whether you're a recruiter, executive, or job seeker, this episode is packed with insights to help you stay ahead in the game.
Hello, this is Alex Romanovich. It's December 19th and welcome to Global Edge Talk, and today our guest is Matt Mann. Hello, matt, hey, alex, happy holidays. Happy holidays. I want to introduce Matt as someone who is a good friend but also a partner in business. As someone who is a good friend but also a partner in business, he is a managing head of sales and growth for a company called Resmarts Global, and we've known each other for over three years. Today's topic is, with new tech and innovation technologies, ai, artificial intelligence and a few others, what have we seen in the area of recruiting, executive search, talent search, talent acquisition, talent management in 2024? And what should we expect in 2025? Once again, welcome Matt, and let's have this really interesting discussion.
Matt:Thank you, alex. I think we've done a couple of these now, so I think we always start with one sort of conversation and end up with a few others that provide some good insight. So happy to be here.
Alex:Excellent. So why don't we begin with a topic that is very much near and dear to you, on a daily basis almost, which is recruiting trends, recruitment trends, executive search trends, and what have you seen in terms of hybrid recruiting trends, remote work environment and so forth? You and I actually spoke about this right after COVID, and that was a couple of years ago, and we're still persisting with hybrid. We're still persisting as a business environment with remote work, but it's changing. Is it changing rapidly enough? Is technology helping with that? Are the companies forcing people to get back to work? I know, for example, recently, federal workers were, in the eyesight of the new administration talking about 25,000 employees still doing remote or hybrid work. So what's happening with that? What's happening with hybrid tech?
Matt:and so forth. It's interesting, alex, because we've been doing this close to 25 years. I've been doing a 10 and I've always been in a real hybrid environment. Particularly, I do like to go to the office. I don't want to be forced to go to the office. I guess that's probably just a personal piece, but I do find from a personal standpoint, I feel like I get more out of that interaction when you come be at the office and work through different things, but I like that option to be able to get things done right. Main area here sales. I got to be with clients. They'll be talking to clients all the time.
Matt:That sort of hiring environment allows you, just from anywhere, and you had that ability to really see does this work for you, does it work for your company? Larger companies that you know and I'm talking to the bigger of the companies they are going to be pulling people back into the office. It may not be a mandatory five days a week, it may only be mandatory for a certain subsection of the company, but there's a lot of real estate that's not being utilized that I know people are going to want to utilize. And then there's also, I think, a sense of control that larger companies are not feeling from their employee workforce. Obviously, 2024 is a strange year in terms of the economy. What companies are seeing? What they're doing? We've seen lots of layoffs, but we've also seen some significant growth and significant changes. So it's an interesting environment to be in and I think, when you look at what's the trend going to be, I think you're going to see the larger companies get to a bit more of that traditional model where they're pulling people back in, really emphasizing what do we need to be successful? Really watching their bottom line, hiring the right people to be strategic, hiring the right people to get the things done that they need to get done and not overhire. So there's a lot of influence within that side of the market.
Matt:Where we focus a lot of attention on is that mid-market type client, the startup, the VC-backed, the private equity-backed clients that are going through some form of global transformation. Whether it's a US company going to Europe or Asia for the first time or vice versa, talking to European companies or Asian companies that are coming to the US, those companies tend to have a bit more flexibility, depending on where they're going and who they're hiring. There tends to be a trend towards the hybrid environment is desired, but if you only have a couple of people in a certain region, they're going to work or fully remote. In my opinion, that's really what we're seeing from the client base. And, long story short, I think a lot of what people are doing is what can work for my company If you're a smaller company with less resources and you can't necessarily compete with the biggest of companies.
Matt:You need to be agile, you need to be able to go find the talent where it sits, so that allows you to look. It used to be all across the US we can go. No, it's not just the US. We can go. Now. It's not just the US, it's the US, it's Latin America, it's Europe. How do we make sure we have the right team, regardless of where they set?
Alex:Very interesting points. Let's talk about skills and training. It seems to me that unless you have something innovative in your resume techie, data-driven, artificial intelligence-driven experience, intelligence-driven experience with different technologies, experience with analytics and data-driven technologies and so forth that your candidacy is almost not going to be looked at. Is that a true statement? Is that something that companies are right now treating as a non-negotiable type of item? In other words, you have to have some level of insight into new technologies, or you have to be analytical and so forth, no matter what position you're going after, whether it's operations or marketing, or something that's not even technical, for that matter. Is that a true statement or something that's not even?
Matt:technical for that matter. Is that a true statement, alex? I think, to be honest, I'd say in that question, when we talk about recruitment, recruiting trends, what companies are looking for, the hiring landscape, tools that people are using to either recruit people or tools that people are using to absorb applications from the market. It's a mess 's a mess. I think people traditionally would say yes to your direct question. Right is, do they need all these skills? Sure, but companies are. Really. What we're finding is the overhiring trend that happened back in late 2020, 2023, 2022 has shifted and people are being a bit more careful at this point. So they're looking at is this position necessary and do we have the right person? Can someone do more than just their job description? Can we do more with less? Seems to be that's the sort of trend. Right, ai allows us to do more with less. Right, just at the very basic levels of automation. So, to answer your question, yes, if people have these skills, is it going to put them above everybody? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think one of the hardest pieces of all of this is how do you know if somebody really has it or not? And that's what I mean by it's a mess. I've had a lot of conversations over the past year and a half with high-level executives that have either taken a break from their career, moved on and they're ready to be back in the market and they find themselves in a point where they're actually applying to jobs and these are sort of heads of sales, heads of marketing, heads of business development, chief engineers, things like that, and ultimately, all these people are applying to different things and getting no responses. I'm talking very I'm not talking your entry-level person, where there's one of a thousand of these people. It is high-level people that have specific skill sets that bring proven methodology, bring proven results to the market and they're not getting responses. And I think a lot of it goes to just what you and I talk about with sales and marketing how the volume of emails being sent out and the volume of applications being sent out and all these sorts of things. There's so much clutter. A lot of stuff is not even being looked at. On one hand, yes, you should have these skill sets to push yourself to the top, but are you getting through the application process through automation? Are people knowing really what to look for? If you have these skills? Is the company you're joining do they even understand how to utilize the technology properly and keep the human element within it where it needs to be and remove it where it doesn't need to be. Over the next year, probably two, I think speed of change is quicker and quicker, especially with technology. It's incredible. So we're going to see a lot of transformations. The CMO turned into the CEO. Right Now we're seeing the chief AI officer. That's starting at the higher level companies. Now you're going to start seeing that throughout Disturb. So there's going to be a huge emphasis for people to have these skill sets, especially on their resumes, especially within their job, no matter what. If you're a customer service agent, we have a client that they have a great AI tool for customer service where it's taking over a large portion of the job. It's not eliminating those jobs, it's making their jobs different, and you'll see that go throughout all the different landscapes, from marketing you'll see it through sales. There's a lot of companies trying to solve the SDR piece. Do you need SDRs? Could you use AI to do it? There's not an answer yet.
Alex:Interesting perspective. Now let's talk about the actual people who are hiring, whether they're sitting inside of large organizations with recruiting organizations and HR organizations, or some of the smaller companies and mid-sized companies that you work with. How some of the smaller companies and mid-sized companies that you work with, how much of the tech and how much of AI, for example, is being used in the recruiting process, talent acquisition process, talent management process, and how do you even balance for that process to be totally fair when you select the candidates? Because, let's face it, ai is not there yet when it comes to human decision-making and the different aspects of that decision-making.
Matt:Seems like it will be soon now, doesn't it? It's an interesting question. Right now, we talk about large language models. Right, we had a discussion a few weeks ago, not on a podcast, but about a potential client that we're going to get together and all of the technology that's being used. Where is the data coming from? Where is the source code? Where are the origins of everything?
Matt:And as you start to learn more about AI and as you start to learn more about how these decisions are being made, you have to be very careful where you're getting your information from. I'm seeing it within the youth and in schools, and they're trying to teach all these pieces, but from an acceleration standpoint. Within the youth and in schools, and they're trying to teach all these pieces, but from an acceleration standpoint within the recruiting world. You're seeing people adopt it fast and furious. You see it with every company. We got to use it, we got to do it, but nobody really has the training, nobody really knows and has learned as you go. So you have to be very careful. Uh, what information you're utilizing it. I think a lot of people are trying to put safeguards in, for how do we make sure the right people are getting through. How do we make sure there is a diverse pool right? And diverse comes into a lot of different pieces. Age is is a big thing. We still see that gets overlooked or used as something against somebody, but AI has a good opportunity to eliminate some of those subjective decisions. But also, where is that information coming from? What is again to the point you made to me a few weeks ago, alex, is where's the origin of the data, right? Where is that coming from? Do we know how to write the props? It's something that we need to make sure that we investigate and learn over and over again, because eventually you're going to only see what you're putting in there and so you're going to miss out on a lot of stuff.
Matt:And that human element side of it in recruiting to me is so important because a lot of people, a lot of companies, are trying to save cost, right, they're trying to take a speed to hire, make it faster, but a lot of people are forgetting to do the most basic things. And do we really understand, do we really understand, the goal of why this position is even being open? What is the goal of this role? What? What type of person do we need to be in this. If we're using AI, if we're using other technologies to review applications and to automate interview processes I've seen some that actually do interviews. So if we're doing all these sorts of things, where is the origin? What is the yes no button? Is a human reviewing it? Are they not? Where are all those things?
Matt:I get the need to be efficient and scale and I actually believe in that. I think there's a great outcome that's going to happen out of this. But essentially, where are those pieces and where are those trends going to go? To see, is someone really overseeing this? Is someone really digging in? Because they're going to miss people. I see it when you're on linkedin right, when you're on your different social trends, social media channels, you're going to constantly be put into an algorithm of how you're sourcing, how you're looking, and if you don't know how to really work through the different ai generation tools, generators, all those sorts of things, you're going to miss out on a whole market. Is it your database? Is it a global database? What are all those pieces that in recruiting, with what we do, you know a lot of things can be automated.
Matt:A lot of the messaging can be automated. Searching can even be automated. It's not there yet. You miss a lot of people. But with what comes there is resumes can be automated. The number of candidates that basically take their resume and their experience and just put it in and generate a resume Resumes generally look pretty darn good these days.
Matt:So can they really do what they say they can? Because if all the resumes start to look the same, how do we start differentiating? How do we start differentiating between who are the real value providers versus not? So I don't know if I have the answer. I think in what we do we put a lot of time and effort talking via Zoom, getting in person. We just actually went to one of our clients' offices to do final interviews with two candidates, pretty high level position sales leadership for Europe. They flew. We flew them over to the US. We sat down with the candidates post interviews to really make sure we understood what their motivations are and certain things, especially when in our world we're dealing with global culture, global landscape and pairing a US with a European or a European with a South American type company and candidate pool. So there's a lot of nuances that you have to be really careful of if you rely only on tech but also, relying only on humans could be an issue as well right, be an issue as well right.
Alex:I think human interaction is going to be pretty soon it's going to be at a premium in comparison to, let's say, AI or something like that. Remember those trends where everybody's using email marketing automation techniques and then all of a sudden you get a personalized letter or a package or something like that, or a package or something like that. If organizations are going to use AI as an example, going as the next frontier, after scanning, after searching for keywords and so forth, and now here comes AI. And then, at the same time, if candidates are going to use AI to develop those resumes and match them match their experiences and their job experience and so forth to job descriptions and how they break that cycle, so to speak, right, so there has to be human involved at some point in time.
Matt:And that's not new, alex. That's not new. We're talking it's a faster, more efficient tool. You have to do less work to make it look that way, but that's not new. You've taught me a lot about SEO, right? How did everybody handle SEO when that first came out? You had to learn what words you got to put in, even though maybe those words weren't quite all that important, but it got you where you needed to be. So you're right that the human interaction.
Matt:I talked with a lot of CROs, one in particular that I'm very fond of. He and I are trying to figure out what's the new playbook for sales, right? Because, to your point, all of these things have made life easier, especially for sales, and it's automation, it's emails, it's all of these pieces. Do people still know how to have a conversation? Do we need to put on a resume? Really good at starting a conversation at a bar? Is that sort of the key skill set that people are going to lose because we don't do it? And my generation, your generation, I think we have this experience from our youth and growing up. I guess people call us older school, right? I know you've done it a little bit longer than me, but we still have that. I'd be in person. I'd rather get on the phone and talk to somebody, but this newer generation that's coming up they think a little bit differently. So it's going to be really interesting to see how we maintain those conversations and really understand how to solve problems.
Matt:Because really, what we're trying to do is we're trying to serve our clients right. We're trying to connect them in recruiting. We're trying to connect great talent with great companies. But you could have a great talent If you put them with the wrong company. It doesn't matter, right?
Matt:Just because someone's great doesn't mean they're going to be good in this company or vice versa. So you need to be able to understand both sides of the coin, right. We need great candidates that have the right talents, that mix with the right culture, and technology is not there yet to do that. We can do a lot of things. Maybe it gets there, maybe it gets emotional IQ really well at some point, but that is going to be a skill set. I think that we're going to see the new salesperson versus the older salesperson at this point. A lot of companies are looking how do we have people that know how to have a real conversation? Because that's the only way they're getting these, especially these enterprise deals, to get across the line it becomes even more complex when you get into the global scene.
Alex:As a veteran of global business, you are probably seeing a lot of those interesting situations where not only the leaders who are hiring globally have to be concerned about the disparity in technology advancements. Maybe us is a little bit more advanced or more innovative than, let's say, some of the European countries or Asian countries, or maybe vice versa. Depends on the situation, depends on the pairing. But how do organizations keep on track of this global notion that says, look, you have to continue to be sensitive to cultural nuances, you have to continue to be sensitive to disparity in differences in advancements in technology, and so forth. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Matt:Alex, I think in that environment again it comes back to being human, having the conversation, understanding what the driver is behind why the company is going somewhere. Understand the driver behind what makes the let's talk about maybe a CRO trying to build their sales team across the globe. Right, they have a product, they know their ICP and they know that US company. Their revenues hit a certain area they know is going to continue to grow. But to really drive growth they have a software product. It's got to be global. Most companies are too integrated from a consumer standpoint or customer standpoint that they need to get to other countries to be able to continue to grow their revenues. Most companies have offshoots in other areas, so they're naturally going to be led that way anyways. So once you start to really make that decision that says we're going to put people in certain areas because we know our product works well and we know there's a market for it, then you have to really understand what they're doing. Do you have to still understand culture, nuances and differences and all those sorts of things Because of technology, despite technology? Whatever you want to put before technology, yeah, it matters In recruiting. We have to approach people differently depending on what country. They're from right and again, broad brush. Probably very politically incorrect to say that. But in essence, we have to understand what it means to win, what it means to get the best candidate to attract the best candidate.
Matt:I think the stat I heard was 97 or 98% of top performers are not applying. 98%, 97%, it was something like that. Top performers don't apply for work. But out of that, 98%, right. So top performers, trust me when I tell you all of my clients typically say they want A players. They say A players or they use some other language that says we want the best of the best. So it's something I hear every day. You don't want to hire someone. That's not great. But if the stats really bear out, let's say it's even 90%, right. If those people don't apply for jobs, how do you find them? You have to approach them right. Out of those 90 to 98% whatever the numbers really are that are top performers that don't apply, out of those the stats do bear out that it's about 80 to 85% of them are open to hearing about new opportunities.
Matt:So you're missing out if you're not approaching people and you really want the top performers, you have to approach people and you have to sell people on why they should pay attention. Now, if you're the big company that everybody knows your name, if you're Apple, if you're the big company that everybody knows your name, if you're Apple, if you're all that sort of stuff, give them the recognition Most companies, if you're going to a new market and different global market, they don't know who you are. So you have to sell your opportunity, you have to sell your company. You have to understand how that plays in that environment and if you don't pay attention to the cultural nuance, you don't pay attention to how people receive information, how people react to information, how people view the US.
Matt:Look at our politics right now. In the past three to four weeks, people know what they at least feel. They know what they're seeing and what's going to happen. So they're actually starting to make decisions, which to me is fantastic. Regardless of whatever side your viewpoint, you agree with um. As long as these companies are moving, they know how to react, they know what to do and they're starting to make those moves. So I find it interesting. But yeah, you have cultural differences and you know some you have to be very aggressive with and tell the story and get in front of their face so that they hear it and see it and they get excited. And some you have to, you know, plant the seed, let it resonate, let it marinate, and then you know they come back to you and they're ready to move forward. And that's just knowing people. But in general, different countries, different cultures that may be more conservative, that may not move their jobs Germany's one, japan's one we see, quite often people don't move jobs like they move in the US.
Alex:So it's very true. It's very true, and the US has still been looked upon as a more aggressive type of environment, and the world is looking at the US and saying, ok, what are the new trends? What are you guys selling right now? What are you pushing right now, man, as we get into 2025, as we're saying goodbye to 2020 and you're parting words for this podcast, what are the top three traits or things that the candidates should be prepared to have, and what are the top three things that the companies recruiting those candidates should have? Now, give us a quick rundown and a few words about that.
Matt:So, from a candidate perspective, I believe one of the biggest things I don't know if I'll give you a 3, but one of the biggest things that if you're a candidate that's in the market looking for a job, get yourself out of the application process. If you find yourself just applying and not following up, you're going to do yourself a disservice. One of the number one skills I think we talked about it a little bit networking is still the quickest way to get introductions, to get a new job, to see what's going on. It's something that people are forgetting about. One networking right. Number two being proactive. If you're on the job, reach out to recruiters Even if you don't see a job. They might have something confidential or at least get them fighting at your corner. Be proactive. Everybody should be a salesperson, at least for themselves At some point. You have to know how to sell your own abilities right. Be proactive in the market. Don't just send an application in follow up. I know these are pretty basic things. People don't follow up right. Follow up. Find the hiring majors, find influencers, find people that you can talk to.
Matt:Get noticed Right now there's so much going on. And number three get noticed Because if you blend in with everybody else, expect to find a job that you're just going to blend in with everybody else, and that's fine, right, if you want a job to blend in, nothing wrong with that. But if you want to stand out, you have to stand out, and that's really one of the biggest things. And so think twice about just putting your resume in the AI generator and just using it when it spits out right, use it, grab ideas from it, make sure it's personal and, through all of those things, know where you add value. Right. That is the number one thing. Companies are not hiring you to make you better. Companies are hiring you to make them better. A VP of sales wants you to make their life easier, wants you to bring in more clients, wants you to bring in more revenue, to make their job better, to make their job easier, and that, in turn, should make your life better. So know your value.
Alex:And what are the top three things that the company should be doing, or maybe HR organizations inside of those companies, I think.
Matt:HR and companies in general need to make sure. One thing we see a lot of is a disjointed executive leadership team. There's a lot of hey, we need to hire people, we need to do this, we need to do that, but cro and hr don't really understand each other's jobs and how they can help each other out. So, ultimately, one of the most important things, it's that communication. It's again understanding the why behind we're trying to do something and understanding what makes that team tick and that way you can, you know, really expedite a process. Whenever I I talk to people, they're always looking for how can we a find the right person right? And b how can we do it really fast? And c how can we not waste money? And everybody talks about recruitment as costs. Whether they do it with an agency or internally, it's always a cost center.
Matt:I like to look at it maybe this is selfish, but I like to look at it as an investment center, really investing in the right people, because once you have your employee, we got to invest in our employees, so it's about investing in your employee. When it comes down to it, you should also invest in how you get that employee. Again, it starts with that why? Why are we doing this? Why are we opening a role? How does this play into the company as an executive team or as a leadership team? Do we understand that? Why Do we understand how to make sure that we capitalize on that why and how we get out there? We can figure out the how and the what and the when, but that part is so important in order to do things fast. Right? You're not going to stop and start and find 10 candidates and then change your mind and do all these sorts of things if you do that prep work first.
Alex:Excellent Matt. Always a great conversation. You truly are an expert in the field of talent search and also talent acquisition. Always great to talk to you and get those insights. Wishing you a great holiday season, happy holidays, merry christmas, happy new year and we'll talk again in 2025.
Matt:And Alex. I really appreciate the time and it's always fun. Again, same Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.
Alex:Thank you much, thank you.