Once again, please welcome Sleem Hasan! The response on Sleem's first episode was incredible so we decided it was time to give you all another one! In this episode we will be discussing Israel–United Arab Emirates normalization agreement, Ralph Heimans and more!
For more information on Sleem, social media links, biography and exclusive materials, please visit our website.
Once again, please welcome Sleem Hasan! The response on Sleem's first episode was incredible so we decided it was time to give you all another one! In this episode we will be discussing Israel–United Arab Emirates normalization agreement, Ralph Heimans and more!
For more information on Sleem, social media links, biography and exclusive materials, please visit our website.
Alex Romanovich (00:00):
Hello, dear audience. This is Alex Romanovich, and welcome to the edition of the GlobalEdgeTalk podcast. Today we are blessed again to have with us Sleem Hasan from Dubai. Hello, Sleem.
Sleem Hasan (00:14):
Good evening, Alex.
Alex Romanovich (00:15):
And just wanted to quickly remind the audience that we had a podcast to interview with Sleem before. He is the CEO and founder of Privity LLE located in Dubai. He is previously the owner of the Hasan Financial Corporation Limited. He was an executive director for quite some time at Nikko Europe and comes to us from London University of Cambridge, University of Oxford, was involved in a number of very interesting transactions, financial transactions, startup transactions. We can easily call him the father of startups in Dubai. He has been very distinguished when it comes to starting the entire ecosystem and supporting the entire ecosystem. We'll talk more about that, but today we are very excited to have a surprise. We will talk about what Sleem describes as a Papal visit. I have no idea what this is. This was not previously discussed. We will talk about Ralph Heimans, who is a famous portrait painter from Australia, and in counter with him, also have no idea what this is about, we will talk about very, very interesting and break through type of the agreement between Israel and the United Emirates, and Bahreinbegin.
Sleem Hasan (01:57):
Well, thank you very much for having me back, Alex. And just to be clear I was not directly involved in the Abrahamic Peace Accord because that was way above me. However, the story I'm about to share with you today is probably the first time I have voiced and add the story on a podcast and it actually spans almost a 20 year period of my life, Alex. And it all started back in 2001 in London where I was based at the time, and I get a call from a convertible bond broker at the defiant Lehman brothers, who was a friend of mine, and it was, I used to trade convertible bonds back in the day, and he turns around and says to me I like you to meet a friend of mine called Ralph Heimans. And my immediate response was, does he trade Japan? And Simon said, no, he's actually an artist from Australia, but he's currently based in Paris, Montmartre where I believe is the place where a lot of the artists hang out in Paris. And initially I kind of like declined because I thought if he's not involved in Japan, however, that has been one of the biggest lessons in my life, if I may say so. Today, honestly, if somebody knocks on my door, if it's even totally unrelated to what I'm doing and referred through a friend, I will take that meeting. I mean, and then you will see why once this story unfolds over the course of this podcast. So after three attempts I meet Ralph, he comes over to my office in the evening. Why in the evening? Because I used to work the graveyard shift trading Japan live from London.
Sleem Hasan (03:58):
So he comes at about 10 o'clock as I can recall. It was like October-November time back in 2001. And lovely chap in his early thirties. And he told me he studied maths. So did I. So we kind of connected. And then he shows me his portfolio. Within five minutes, Alex, I turned around to Ralph and commissioning him on the spot to do my portrait. And the question should be asked me now is, Sleem, what do you go from no-no to yes? And the answer is very, very simple. When I saw his portfolio, as a layman I haven't had any formal training in art, nor I am an artist. I could not tell the difference between Rembrandt, Rubin, Caravaggio or Ralph. I mean, that style, referred to as chiaroscuro, meaning night and day, the different lights, was basically the style of the Nason artist, was what I saw in Ralph's portfolio. And I initially commissioned him to do my portrait. And if you do visit a website privitylle.com/about-us, that is actually Ralph's painting of me, done nearly 20 years ago. So that's how my relationship started with Ralph.
Alex Romanovich (05:20):
Excellent. So we're definitely going to provide the link to that piece of art and piece of very interesting work and what a great story. So are you maintaining contact with him still?
Sleem Hasan (05:37):
Well, the journey continues. So I kept in touch and then finally in 2004, I relocated to Dubai, as I told you, perhaps, in our last podcast, the move from London to Dubai to start my business in technology ventures, early technology ventures globally from Dubai. I was early, now with the benefit of hindsight, I look back and I was five years too early, to be honest. But I did not know that at the time, I just fell in love with this place, if you recall my previous chat. So after about a year into it not making a penny, I thought, as an entrepreneur, you don't sit on your laurels. You start thinking of what to do next. I reached out to my friend, Ralph, who I've got to know now for four years and I asked him if I could represent him in this region and see if I could get some commission work going.
Sleem Hasan (06:38):
And guess what? He agreed. And I started scouting for opportunity here in at that time, even the art scene was quite embryonic in Dubai. It wasn't as structured and organized as it is today, but back then, it was still very embryonic. There were few art studios and some places developing, but it was very early days. Believe it or not, in 2005, we landed his first commission work in the region in the MENA, which is the Middle East and North Africa, GCC, and the UAE region. The GCC's six member states that comprise the Gulf CorporationCouncil. So the commissioner asked Ralph to paint something that depicts this region and focus on interface.
Sleem Hasan (07:38):
This is what he was asked. And Ralph then went away and he came up with this idea of depicting the scene of three people standing on the left hand side of this painting: one in a suit representing Christianity, the guy in the middle in a dish dash representing Islam and the guy on the right, wearing a yamaka, of course, representing Judaism. As you know, Jerusalem is sacrosanct all three Abrahamic faiths. And why do I say Jerusalem? Because the inside setting of this painting was none other inside the dome of the rock or goods as it's referred to as well. So this is how the whole thing about interfaith and The Dialogue started very early days, way back, 15 years ago. Anyway, it's time to deliver the paintings. So Ralph jumps on a plane and flies over to Dubai. We are very excited to deliver this painting to the client with approved it, sketches everything, and paid for it and whatever.
Sleem Hasan (08:53):
So we go to his office and we invaded upon seeing the painting. He takes one look and decides he doesn't want it. And he tells Ralph and myself, we should immediately take this out of his sight and out of the office. So it was a total Volta fast, in my opinion, about tone, about face from commissioning us to do it and then literally. In fact, Ralph documented what I'm saying. And this actually piece of document I do have, and why do I have it? Because when we left the office, Ralph was of course crestfallen. I was of course, upset as well. I was one year old in Dubai, and I just couldn't understand why the change. So believe it or not, I was not legal contractual obliged to buy, but I did turn around to Ralph and said, Ralph, I'll buy it.
Sleem Hasan (09:59):
I'll take it off your hands, so your time is not wasted. So I'm going to read a little bit from a paragraph from that document I was referring to, and I'll share it with you after the podcast. So if you want to share with your viewers, by all means. He wrote upon completion of the painting, I traveled to Dubai to deliver it personally. To my complete surprise, the client strongly disapproved the work and ordered the immediate removal of the painting from his sight claiming that he could not tolerate the depiction of a Jewish figure in the painting. Yet this reaction was immediately counterbalanced by gesture of singular kindness and generosity by Sleem to acquire the painting himself, who, in contrast, admired the message of the painting and viewed the adversity of the client's reaction as a blessing in disguise. Ironically, then such incidents surrounding the making of The Dialogue directly mirrored the tensions and potential for reconciliation that the subject itself represents. This was written by Ralph 15 years ago.
Sleem Hasan (11:19):
So the journey continues, Alex. 2006, March. I'm in my office in Dubai. I get a call from Ralph grinning from ear to ear. So I go, what's up, Ralph? He said, I just got my first royal commission. Who? Royal Highness Princess Mary of Denmark. I said, bravo, Ralph, well done. I mean, that's very exciting. Next thing, he very kindly invites me to attend the unveiling outside Copenhagen at the Frederiksborg Castle in 2006. So I fly from Dubai to Copenhagen and I attend the unveiling in front of Prince Frederick and Princess Mary. And it was amazing in the evening it was the reception I meet Ralph's mum and dad for the first time, he has a Dutch father and a Lebanese mother. So I'm talking to his mother and she's very kind.
Sleem Hasan (12:16):
And the first thing she says to me, thank you very much for helping my son. And I said, you're welcome, it's pleasure. And Ralph standing there, and then she turns around and she says the most interesting thing, she says, I've collected every squiggle my son has made since he was four years old, referring to Ralph. But in her eyes as of 2006, The Dialogue is his masterpiece. This is the mother talking to me, not a broker, not a manager, not an agent. I had no words. I mean, she gave birth to Ralph. She could say just about whatever she wants, but I just thanked her politely. I was gobsmacked. I could not say anything back to her. I just moved on. Fast forward six years later. So I'm in my office, which you came to if you recall, Alex, in Dubai a couple of years back, and I was in the same office at very early in the morning, around 5:30, I'm an early riser and the phone rings.
Sleem Hasan (13:14):
And it's a very dear friend of mine who married a Belarusian girl. His name is Omron. And he calls me from Belarus, and I go, is everything okay, Omron? I mean, it's 5:30 in the morning. And he goes, I couldn't wait, Sleem. I said, well, wait for what? So it's just the Sydney Morning Herald, the South China Morning Post, the Daily Mail, the Daily Telegraph art section had headlines 'Buckingham Palace commissioned Ralph Heimans to paint the Queen for the Diamond Jubilee'. He was the only artist picked by Buckingham Palace to paint a match. See the Queen, the totem-factotum Royal in the world for the Diamond Jubilee. I had no words. I had absolutely no words. And I believe back then in 2012, the Daily Telegraph reported a price tag of something like a quarter of a million pounds for his paintings now.
Sleem Hasan (14:15):
So, I mean, this is multiple times from when I got involved with even landed his first commission to buy, but I'm just telling you, I'm giving you a price point, which I recall from 8 years back. Anyway, the painting is completed, that's about 9 feet by 11 feet oil-on-canvas. And guess what, it shows the Queen standing on the Cosmati pavement at Westminster Abbey, which is where she got coronated back in 1953 and a beautiful painting. And then of course, because it's in the Westminster Abbey, the Dean of Westminster Abbey steps forward and tells a match, see what the final resting place has to be none other than the Westminster Abbey. Next thing, guess what, `I was in London last year during the summer, and I'll send you some pictures, so if you want to share those as well by all means.
Sleem Hasan (15:16):
I went to Westminster Abbey with Ralph and my two young daughters, Leisha and Sila, the elder one is Leisha, the younger one is Sila. With uncle Ralph we go to Westminster Abbey and guess what? We're standing in front of her Majesty's painting. And that was an amazing. But anyway, the story continues: I'm now in 2017, and I'm having lunch with my wife and a girl friend of hers at the Chinese restaurant at the DIFC, which is the Dubai International Financial Center, called Royal China. It was a restaurant from London that was opened up here in Dubai several years back, we were just having a social casual lunch. And my wife was talking to a girl friend and she's talking about the trip having come back` from Toronto in connection with the other accounts opening up the Islamic museum there. So they talki about art, Islamic art, museum and so on and so forth. She's of the faith and she was involved helping in the ceremony concerned to which my wife just turns around and says, you should talk to her about Ralph, which I did. And up to 2017 I shared whatever I could about the journey.
Sleem Hasan (16:34):
And she got very excited and she immediately said, you have to meet this girl called Rebecca. And we had no clue who Rebecca was. But the next thing, a lady by the name of Rebecca Anne Proctor, who used to be the former editor in chief of the Harper's Bazaar Arabia Magazine. Kindly comes over to our apartment. And I narrate the story from the early days up to that point. And she very kindly decided to publish this whole journey up to 2017 in one of the additions circa June, 2017, I believe. Anyway, that was great.
Sleem Hasan (17:19):
And the journey continues. So it's now February, 2019, or should I say December, 2018. I was in Karachi and I read the local press here in the UAE online: the Gulf News, the National and so on and so forth. And they were all talking about an event that's about to take place for the first time in the history of this country, UAE, February, 2019. And they're all talking about the visit of Pope Francis, hence the Papal Visit. Now, why is this important? Because not only does he visit the UAE for the first time, it's a historical event. I mean, the whole world was covering this event. He also conducts a mass for about hundred thousand Catholics and Christians in Abu Dhabi. He comes during interfaith harmony week, which is the first week of February. And that was actually established in the United Nations with one of the Kings of Jordan who was a proponent for this to establish interfaith harmony week.
Sleem Hasan (18:31):
And I remember the dates vividly in my mind, February 3rd to 5th, 2019. The pope was here for about 48 hours. And of course, that event, needless to say, received worldwide press. And then guess what the Pope talked about. He talked about two words, kept repeating and repeating all the different press I've read, interfaith dialogue. How serendipitous, Alex, for the Pope to be talking about two words, which also resonate with me through Ralph's painting called The Dialogue subject matter interfaith. Then there was an announcement in the UAE shortly after the Pope leaves that the UAE government announced that they're building a mosque, a church, and a synagogue in Abu Dhabi. It's all reported in the press. So everything I'm saying, you can easily verify that in the public domain. And they also talked about building the museum to focus on interfaith art.
Sleem Hasan (19:39):
So I thout at that time, well, this is somebody is talking to me here. I mean, all these events are just not flashes in the pan, there seems to be some husbandry in heaven that I cannot understand. And yet this is a journey that started many, many years ago only because I decided to meet somebody. Otherwise, how would I be even in a position to even share this with you today, Alex. It's not possible. Anyway, people approached me, would you like to sell the painting? Would you do this? And I listened, but didn't do anything. I just kept quiet and the journey continues. So in December, 2019, believe it or not, Ralph gets invited back to the UAE by the Ministry of culture, knowledge development. And he spends a week here between Abu Dhabi, Al Ain and Dubai. And I've documented some of this on my landing page, on LinkedIn and on my website, because Ralph is one of the partners, portfolio partner of Privity for a long time now.
Sleem Hasan (20:52):
And in fact, if Ralph was a technology stock or technology venture, he would probably be my first unicorn in terms of what his value has done since I got involved. But regardless, that's neither here nor there. He came, it was a fantastic meeting. I probably saw more of this country in 16 years in that one week, then in the last 16 years that I've been here. So that happens. He comes and goes, life carries on. Fast forward 13th of August, 2020, an announcement comes: UAE and Israel sign the historic deal referred to the Abrahamic Peace Accord. Alex, I fell off my chair. Here am I, in the same country where you counted 15 years ago. Through the painting, through my involvement, a reaction towards the Jewish figure. I hasten to add it was not by an Emirati just to be clear, but regardless it happened and it was documented by Ralph.
Sleem Hasan (22:08):
That's said I was delighted to see that this deal was announced, delighted for many, many points of views. I have a very, very different view about many things in life, but this was something that, who could have foreseen a Buckingham Palace jumping on Ralph and who could have foreseen 15 years ago that the message of this painting that was done 15 years ago, would get reflected in some way, shape or form by this deal that happened. Now I thought, this is a historic occasion. I did reach out to the authorities. And for the first time in 15 years, I decided to give this as a gesture between the different nations concerned. Now, because this was new and this is very early in the proceedings. I totally understand and appreciate that perhaps the timing was not right.
Sleem Hasan (23:25):
And I said, that is fine too. Early September again, there was an announcement that the ruling family will be traveling to Washington DC to meet Trump, to sign the Accord. And again, I tried to give the painting, because I felt there is a message in that painting, which is not in justice just hanging on my wall here. There's a message in that painting that is so powerful, so potent that the world needs to see it or hear it or learn about it and understand the entire journey and the history behind that painting. So today somebody asks me, if you want to sell it, how would you price it? Well, I said, look, Ralph is a commission artist. He's very private. He works with a lot of folks. Obviously he's done a lot of royalty, that's all well-documented.
Sleem Hasan (24:26):
If somebody wants to commission him by all means, that's a separate conversation, but that's not the point. The point is regarding this painting. And I have a simple response to that. What is the price you give for peace between the different nations? I mean, between Israel and its Arab neighbors. What is the price on that? Can you put a price on that? I cannot. And therefore I just stop there. And I thought, this is probably the first time I want to share this journey in 20 years since I first met Ralph, because I think there's something there that I cannot quantify. I cannot, but I think the message there is this man has talent. Today he's referred to as a modern day Caravaggio and what he did so many years ago, and that whole sea change of reaction towards the missing that painting is probably one of the most beautiful things that I've personally witnessed upfront and close in my life. And that's what I wanted to share with you today.
Alex Romanovich (25:41):
First of all, thank you so much for sharing this, number one. Number two, this is an incredible story. We will definitely share this story with our audience and beyond. We would love to capture the photographs of those paintings as well to put together with the story, but let's talk about, let this story be an impetus for our further discussion, because I would love to talk to you specifically about the Accord between the Israelis and the Emirates and Bahrainis. And also, let's talk more about you, let's talk more about what the next projects may look like for you this year, next year. Obviously we're all hoping for next year to be a lot more potent and a lot more interesting than this year. Not that this year wasn't interesting to say the least, but let's talk about the Accord, the Peace Accord.
Alex Romanovich (26:46):
It's interesting because in the United States, as you know, our country is very diverse. Our country is very I would say different in different parts of the country. And this Peace Accord has been met or was met, I should say, by some interesting reactions. Some people said, look, it's been in the making for quite some time, so this was just maybe the stamp, the final stamp of approval by the United States. And we're not even sure how much Trump was involved or other than to put the parties together. Other folks said, well, this is historic. This has never happened before. This is something that is incredible and signifies a new chapter in the relationship between the Israelis and the Arab countries, and also Jews and Arabs and Muslims all over the world because not only I think there were a couple of other smaller items.
Alex Romanovich (27:56):
I mean, they're significant, but there were smaller items as far as newsworthiness is concerned, such as that Israeli planes can now fly over Saudi Arabia on the way to the Emirates, or some things like that. The third reaction was that, well, while all of this has taken place, the Palestinians are still in dire straights, they're still being suppressed. They're still being discriminated against. And what about that and so forth and so on. So there just have been a plethora of reactions in our society, in our country. And I would love to get your opinion on this particular Accord and what it means for business, what it means for the people of Israel, Emirates and other Arab nations, what it means for the interfaith relationships and so forth? Can you elaborate more on this?
Sleem Hasan (28:57):
Look, I can talk relative to my field of vision that was before I relocated to Dubai. Anybody who has operated in any world financial center, be it London, New York or Tokyo, you invariably counter or interact with people from all backgrounds, including people of the Jewish faith. New York is some of the most high profile traders and Wall Street veterans all of that faith. So if you were in the financial world and were interacting, it's not surprising that you'd interact with those folks. Now you've got five fingers on your hand, they all belong to you, they're all different sizes and they all co-exist. That is how I see the world. I've always seen the world that way. I mean, we can agree or disagree on different points but coexistenc tolerance, empathy, respectful disagreement with other people that is how I've been brought up.
Sleem Hasan (30:22):
You don't impose your views. You listen. I mean, I don't have to agree with everything you say, but respectfully I may just speak my mind and then say not to agree with what you're saying, but there's no need to be to confront somebody just because somebody has a different opinion or view. When it comes down to business, but that's the second part of what you asked me. Well, I'm in the technology business, early stage technology ventures. And I don't know if I mentioned this in our last podcast, but back in 2004, when I was starting Privity I came up with a corporate methodology called 4I: ideas, innovation, invention, intelligence. And I hang my hat on innovation, and Stanford defines innovation as being directly proportional to R&D spending. And when I did an initial search for absolute spend by countries ranked in dollar terms, and obviously this is all data, but then the tables change year on year. But in the top 10 countries in the world, none actually come from this region, top 20, top 30 and so on and so forth.
Sleem Hasan (31:52):
In fact, Israel is the only one that probably ranks in the top 20. I don't remember, recall the exact ranking, but they spend a lot on R&D and as capita spit is probably very high indeed. And for me that is where real innovation comes out of. So can you imagine being in this business, sitting in a region looking for that type of innovation and not having the opportunity to either source it, find it, interact with folks who could actually connect you with that type of innovation. But I did find opportunities in the U.S. One particular portfolio company of mine. I mean, the founder studied at the Technion in Israel, he's based in New York. And that's when I learned more about the academic institutions out there and how the Technion is at par with MIT in the U.S. and so on and so forth.
Sleem Hasan (32:57):
So again, I've always been looking for that type of Zero to One technology. And that's my vision, and it's always been my vision here to build that type of thing sitting out here. Yes, there are tons of, when the VC community, it has become much more robust and, the community has grown and there's a lot of opportunity going on, but my vision was to build something here that you could rival, not rival, but benchmark yourself against the giants out there. And I know it's probably not going to happen in my lifetime, but at least that was my vision. That's said, I mean, there's been a massive change in this region in UAE from 2004 to 2020. And I don't know if I refered to it in our last chat, but I call it certainly in Dubai I've observed the shift from what I call labor camps to knowledge camps, they become the building blocks, they used to build the infrastructure ecosystem of this place. Now they've built most of it. They're moving up the value chain, shifting gears to the knowledge economy and the knowledge economy is represented by things like accelerators, incubators, VCs, entrepreneurs. I mean, that whole ecosystem is evolving. Obviously you got to get the public private and academia as a core backbone, just like Silicon Valley date, the tri helix structure that we referred to back in Silicon Valley.
Alex Romanovich (34:22):
So you're saying that this is going to tremendously benefit the region, the Gulf region because of this trifecta, if you will, of innovation and financial harmony or synchronicity between the United States, Israel and the Gulf region. And this will only benefit and help the Gulf region to accelerate its path towards innovation, towards a much faster cycle of going from innovation to infrastructure, to implementation, to execution. And you're saying that is one of the best things that could possibly happen to this region in that particular cities.
Sleem Hasan (35:12):
Look, Alex. Let's put it in proportion. I mean, I want to give a measured response and not one that reflects hype or reflects anything that is prone to exaggeration, because that I will not do. But all I'm saying is there are pockets of innovation, which identified a long time ago, which were absent in the region ex-Israel. That's what I'm saying. And to have the opportunity to interact with that pocket of innovation can only stand us in good stead. That is what I'm saying. Now, will it take time? Yes. Will they be a winners and losers even out of Israeli? Yes. Not everything coming out of there is going to smell of roses. However, there's a higher chance of you finding those pockets of innovation. If you align yourself with the right partners and that will manifest itself over time.
Alex Romanovich (36:16):
You saw this early on 16 years ago, you actually came to the region. You've invested in companies, some Israeli companies, some were Israeli founders and co-founders. Now, since we're on the topic of predictions and now we have the Accord in place, it's all inked. It's all in good faith and so forth. So let's predict. Sleem predictions what is going to happen next over the next, I would say five years, what are the things that will begin to happen now that we have the recognition of the Israeli state, we have the recognition of the Israeli infrastructure and the ecosystem by the Gulf region, by the Gulf States, what do you think will happen next over the course of two, three, four, five years? Will it be an influx of investment into the Israel or vice versa? Will there be collaboration and innovative projects and so forth? What are your thoughts?
Sleem Hasan (37:24):
Look, I'm going to answer it in a very different way, if you allow me to. I come from a family of lawyers and my late father was a judge. And he taught me one thing, growing up as a child coming from a lawyer, he said, son, if there are two people signing a piece of paper and they both have the best lawyers on either side to sign that document. And one side has mala fide, it's not worth the paper it's written up. In that, what I'm saying is, as long as the intentions of both sides are honorable and pure, good things will follow. And I've answered your question.
Alex Romanovich (38:13):
Yes, I believe so. In a very general way, but you have answered my question and obviously everybody's hopeful that a lot of from now.
Sleem Hasan (38:22):
Look, it's a new relationship and I'm not casting aspersions on anybody. That the last thing I'm doing, but what I'm saying time will tell. I mean, look, when a husband and wife get married, everything is nice and rosy, but over time you find out the marriage works out. Is it blessed, is it not blessed? They have kids, no kids, does it work out, not work up. Two friends, two friends over time, if we find out. Everything is time. It's a journey, you have to take your time and you have to plant the seeds and you see blossom and grow. Now the good news is that I had friendships with all kinds of people, all faiths. In fact, interfaith dialogue is very dear to my heart because that's how I look at humanity.
Sleem Hasan (39:11):
There's only one single source of truth as well, Alex. The sun rises in the East for Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, a Buddhist and atheist. It's single source of truth, right? It's not it's rising in the West for you, the East for me. No, it's the same for all. And that's the lens through which I look at some of these things. But right now, I think there's a bit of euphoria in certain camps. There's a bit of skepticism in other camps. Naturally, naturally. I mean, you cannot expect everybody's expressions and feelings with the same brush, with time will tell. And that's how I like to put it, while I'm cautiously optimistic at the same time, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Sleem Hasan (40:15):
If suddenly there's a nice technology found in Israel that can help maybe the future food security aspects of this region and benefit its neighbors. Well, maybe that will shine a different light on people down the road that, thanks to this technology that was sourced in geography, it benefited me and so on and so forth. And I'm just giving simple examples. So, I think, when something's broken, you've got to mend fences, it takes time. It's a really, really good first step, however time, and an actual concrete examples of getting good things done that can benefit everybody, not just one group or a select group, everybody.
Alex Romanovich (41:06):
Right. Well, and there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the voice of the Gulf, Sleem Hasan. Very interesting discussion on, and the great story on Ralph Heimans, by the way, we will definitely publish some of the supporting material with pictures. And the transcription of this conversation, number one. Some very interesting discussions, and we will continue that discussion on the relationship between the Israelis and the Gulf region States. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for being with us today. And I would love to continue this conversation, and who knows, maybe we will have some additional guests from the Gulf region, maybe in a three way conversation to support your investment into the region, to support your belief in it, and to support your commitment over so many years that is benefiting so many different companies in the region. So, Sleem, thank you so much for being with us again, and we're looking forward to our next discussion.
Sleem Hasan (42:15):
Peace, Salaam, Shalom to you as well, Alex.
Alex Romanovich (42:17):
Thank you.